Caroline Estes interview

Caroline Estes

Several years ago, at the annual American Cichlid Association (ACA) conference, I met today’s interviewee, Caroline Estes. We were introduced by Pam Chin. I remember sitting in the hotel lobby talking to both ladies and having a blast. 

Caroline is a long-time hobbyist. In fact, she’s been in the hobby for more than 41 years. If you’re from the southeastern part of Texas, you might remember the aquarium store she owned and operated in Austin called Amazonia Aquariums. Focusing on mostly cichlids and oddball fish, the store had more than 500 tanks. Over the years, she’s also been on fish collecting trips all over Mexico and Lake Tanganyika in Africa. So, to say Caroline knows cichlids is an understatement.

Along with Pam Chin and Pam Marsh, she is one of the founding members of Babes in the Cichlid Hobby (or BITCHes as they like to refer to themselves per the acronym). This all-female cichlid group actively raises awareness and funds for cichlid research and conservation through such activities as raffles, silent auctions, and even live fish auctions at the ACA Convention. For more information about Babes, see my first interview with Pam Chin or visit the Babe’s website. To date, the group has raised over $200,000 for cichlid research and conservation. 

The original Babes. Pam Chin, Pam Marsh, and Caroline Estes (l to r). Photo from Caroline Estes.

Caroline is retired now but hasn’t slowed down. She’s a backup singer in a local Austin, TX band, a political activist, travels the country visiting fish friends, giving fish talks, and working with dog rescue groups. You can connect with Caroline and other fish friends via her Facebook group – Girls for Fish. 

On to the interview!

As a long-time aquarium business owner and hobbyist, you have seen both the good and bad in the hobby. If you could give new fish keepers at least three pieces of advice, what would they be?

  1. Don’t buy fish from big box stores, shop at mom-and-pop stores and develop a long-term relationship with them.
  2. Keep fish in biotope type setups, fish that evolved together in the same area have the same water parameter requirements. They can communicate better and will get along better. Do not mix fish from different continents (i.e., different water chemistry requirements) together.
  3. Research a species before you buy them and only buy fish that you can correctly house at an adult size. No one wants your teenaged red tail catfish, and it is unethical to buy and halfway raise a fish that gets too big for most tanks. Do not ever buy a fish on a whim without knowing what it needs to be healthy. Never let fish go in the wild.
  4. Don’t buy hybrids and keep fish of real species. Buy pairs with extra backups for when one gets killed by the other one.
  5. Write down the info on the fish in notebooks with dates you got them. You think you will remember but you won’t.
  6. Bitches don’t follow the rules. 

What are the most significant changes you have witnessed in the hobby since your days running Amazonia Aquariums?

  1. The popularity of hybrids like parrot cichlids. (barf)
  2. The invention of genetically modified fish like glo tetras. (creepy)
  3. The fall in popularity of fish clubs attended in person and rise of Internet fish communities. (sad)

None of these are good things, in my opinion. 

Organizations like the American Cichlid Association (ACA) are vital to the continuity of the hobby. You have played an integral part in the organization and have attended 35 ACA conventions. For newcomers to the hobby, what would you like for them to know about the ACA and its conventions?

 I think that fish clubs like the ACA build banks of knowledge and fish leaders that are vital tools to the long-term progression of our hobby. The camaraderie the annual in person conventions provides is irreplaceable compared to Internet conversations and connections. People are more motivated and learn so much more from others in person. Mentorship and growth occur from these in person functions. You can meet the fish people you respect and idolize in person and hang out with them, and this progresses the love of the hobby and future of the hobby more than online chats can ever do. Fish people and fish friends are the best part of the hobby long term. The fish come and go but the friends are forever. 
Caroline and friends at a fish convention. Photo from Caroline Estes.

I think Babes in the Cichlid Hobby has been a huge success. As one of the founders, what are you most proud of now?

First, the large amount of money we have raised to help with conservation and research. Second, the example we’ve set by raising the bar for other hobbyists to make a long-term difference in the hobby- inspiring women to be leaders in the hobby and leading by example.

Babes in the Cichlid Hobby infographic. Image by Pam Marsh.

Getting youth engaged in and sustaining the hobby is critical, in my opinion. As a long time hobbyist yourself, what can we do to better sell the youth on cichlid keeping?

I used to donate all free tank setups given to my fish store to teachers for classroom use. We need a national framework program for all independent fish stores to implement, which allows their customers to donate used tanks and equipment to teachers and then the stores would keep a list of teachers wanting free stuff. When the tanks come in, you call the teacher and have them pick up the free tank and equipment for the classroom. Amazonia oversaw the donation of 100s of tanks in 20 years to classrooms of public schools. My rules were public schools only. If we can get tanks into classrooms, the kids will be exposed to fish keeping early and be more likely to pick up the hobby.

 

You’re quite fond of new world cichlids. Talk about a couple of your favorite species and why they’re your favorite.

My long running joke is I like my men like I like my fish – big, smart, ornery, and good looking. I like new world fish best because their water chemistry preference is what we have running out of the tap, hard and alkaline.  I like them better than Africans because they are smarter, more diverse than mbuna in size, behavior and colors. A Central American and Mexican cichlid is one of the smartest fish of all. They have individual personalities and are like affectionate pets that love you and interact with you like a dog would. They hate some people and love you the best. My faves come and go thru the years but one long-term pet I had was a blackbelt (Vieja maculicauda), “Big Bertha.” I had it as a shop pet for 16 years with a bigger than life personality. People would come just to visit her.
 
Photo from several years ago of Caroline (l), Pam Chin (middle), and Steve Lundblad (r) taken in the Republic of Zambia, in south-central Africa. Photo from Caroline Estes.
I also had “Fernando,” a true trimac (Cichlasoma trimaculatum).  I owned his parents and sold his grandchildren. Anytime folks came in asking about flowerhorns, I’d introduce them to “Fernando” and say this is what you really want, a real pure-bred cichlid not a muddled manmade mutt fish. I also like grammodes and, as the smallest member of the Nandopsis group, they have a big predator fish personality in a smaller more manageable body size. I always wanted to collect one in the wild in Mexico and raise the little guy up to adulthood then breed them from wild caught babies but never got to do that (yet). 
 

You’ve been a huge contributor to and proponent of cichlid conservation. If you were in charge of all cichlid conservation efforts, what would you be doing or be doing differently?

I’d establish a framework to record the lineage and history of each fish. I’d have all fish come with information like an AKC registered dog does. It would include data saying where they were bred, where their parents or grandparents were collected from, location data, and how many generations from the wild they are. People need to know which subgroup and location a particular fish is from, as some species collected from different areas are quite different and get muddled together in fish farm ponds and wholesaler’s tanks. We need location data and have F0 or F1 or F2 attached to every fish sold. 

Fish collecting trips have been real highlights for you. What are some things to know for someone who wants to take a fish collecting trip to Mexico?

  • Go with a local who knows the area and the fish.
  • Do catch and release, as it is hard to get paperwork to get them across the border.
  • Tell your doctor you’re doing it then get your shots in advance.  Once you get back home, get a medical checkup afterwards. I caught a protozoan disease from tromping around in the dirty water, and it made me sick with intestinal issues. It was easy to cure with flagyl, but the doctor has to know to look for it.
  • Respect the locals and their fish knowledge. They grew up with these fish.
  • Bring color copies of pictures from your fish books and point out your target species to local fishermen so they can lead you to them. Then pay them for this service.
  • Also don’t use the ice unless it is from purified water and don’t believe the restaurant when they said it is purified water ice. Ice is an American thing, and they don’t use ice in their drinks. As an iced tea junkie, I brought my own tea bags, bought purified water to make my own tea, and bought bags of purified ice for my own use. Do not order iced tea there, ever. 
Caroline selling raffle tickets at a recent ACA convention. Photo from Caroline Estes.

Anything we didn’t cover above that you would like to talk about or comment on?

Fish friends are lifelong friends, and the people you meet at fish conventions will be your friends for the next five or so decades. These are the best friends of your life, and you need to cultivate them and keep them close and go to conventions to be inspired and motivated to do more for the hobby. The hobby is more than the tanks and fish. It is the friendships and life experiences you gain from it too. Also take pictures and store them because you’ll wish you did later. Write stuff down in notebooks and take notes with dates and info on your adventures and fish you keep. You always think you will remember, and 40 years later, you don’t remember sh!t. 

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